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Pojo's Pokémon Card of the Day

 

 Kyogre

- XY Promo 51

Date Reviewed:
June 9, 2015

Ratings & Reviews Summary

Standard: 1.60
Expanded: 1.60
Limited: See Below

Ratings are based on a 1 to 5 scale.
1 being horrible.  3 ... average.  5 is awesome.

Back to the main COTD Page

Baby Mario
2010 UK National
Seniors
Champion

Kyogre (XY Promo 51) 

Today’s card is a reprint of the Basic Kyogre from Primal Clash. We didn’t review it then though, so I guess it’s worth a look now. 

Or maybe not. The most notable thing about this card is that Spring Tides one of those ‘flip until you get tails’ attacks that you can insert into ‘highest possible damage’ debates because theoretically, the damage output is infinite. Practically, of course, the damage output is likely to be zero if you’re unlucky, and maybe 30-90 if you are really on a roll. That’s nothing that will convince you to run this card. 

Ocean Cyclone won’t persuade you either, as it is incredibly expensive for a moderately damaging attack with a bit of spread built in. Add to that a horrific retreat cost, and even Kyogre’s decent HP isn’t going to make it worthy of consideration.  

Of interest only to collectors, who will want the alternative art. 

Rating 

Modified: 1.25

Expanded: 1.25

Limited: N/A


aroramage
Andre

NO, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE!! WE SENT YOU BACK TO THE DEPTHS OF DAVY JONES' LOCKER WHERE YOU BELONG!! YOU GET BACK IN THERE YOU- 

oh 

Hey guys! Welcome back! Actually, this is a...curious card. First off, it's a Promo card. Second, it's a reprint. Third, it was actually in Primal Clash...and we missed it. Welp, these things tend to happen. And hey, this card is in vast quantities, what being in Primal Clash, the starter decks for Primal Clash, the Primal Kyogre Collection, and even the Kyogre Box. Seriously, can we get more Kyogre? 

Yes. Yes we can. 

So Kyogre here is all kinds of strange. His first attack Spring Tides is a lot of coin flips. Like a LOT of coin flips. Like "until you get tails" coin flips. So on average, you'll be dealing 30 damage with this attack, assuming your first flip is heads and that the second is tails. In THAT order. So it's okay, nothing competitive. 

Then there's Ocean Cyclone, which is a heaping 4-for-80 strike, a bit of a disappointment when compared to stuff like Talonflame from yesterday with a 2-for-90. On the flip side of that, Kyogre won't deal damage to himself - he'll be dealing damage to the opponent's Bench as well, to the tune of 10 damage a piece! So that's a potential 80-130-160 with Sky Field in terms of overall damage before damage boosts or things like Muscle Band and Wide Lens! 

Unfortunately, that's all this Kyogre's got to offer, and it falls on the short end of Basic non-EX Pokemon. So in general, Kyogre's about middle of the road if not a little lower. Not to be confused with Primal Kyogre-EX, who at least can have his own deck. 

Rating 

Standard: 1.5/5 (just not that great, there are plenty of better deck options)

Expanded: 1.5/5 (not much better here) 

Limited: 3.5/5 (the promo doesn't have a set, but since this card came out in Primal Clash, it can be judged in that format! And it's reasonable, since it sets up for future KOs with Ocean Cyclone and Spring Tides isn't as unreasonable) 

Arora Notealus: It's not often the case where a promo is a reprint of a card from a set, but sometimes it comes up, especially with sets like Primal Clash that start off a new "block" of sorts. Like XY-Phantom Forces could be considered the "XY" Block, then Primal Clash onward is the "ORAS" block. Granted, we don't really have stuff like that in Pokemon, but it's the thought that counts! 

Next Time: The great song bird of the frozen lands, arise from your island in the sea.


Otaku

Time to really shift gears as we change Types and expansions as today we look at Kyogre (XY: Primal Clash 53/160; XY Black Star Promos XY51).  So why are we looking at this now?  We are behind on promos and though there are still some great cards to look at for XY: Roaring Skies, there aren’t enough to keep us occupied until the next set.  Throw in that I wanted to take a look at this when we were reviewing XY: Primal Clash cards but had to cut it do to scheduling issues and the bombshell announcement of last week (the impending ban of Lysandre’s Trump Card) as well as reveals from the next Japanese set and it seemed like a good time not to rush. 

So Kyogre is a Basic, Water-Type Pokémon.  Being a Basic is the best as the game leaves little to no time to Evolve and can be brutal when it comes to deck space.  Being a Water-Type is pretty middle-of-the-road right now; this may change after the ban but based on Spring Regional results you’re going to get a few shots at exploiting Water Weakness, but not a lot.  This shouldn’t be a surprise at it looks like Seismitoad-EX is hovering somewhere between three out of every 10 and one in three decks (32.4% according to The Charizard Lounge); I am guessing that thinned a lot of possible Water Weak Pokémon from the top cut.  The good news is that Water Resistance hasn’t shown up at all in the XY sets so you’ll only encounter it on older Grass-Types like Virizion-EX and even then, -20 damage is an annoyance more than a true obstacle.  There is some Type support, including the odd “shared” Type support.  I don’t mean indirect like Blastoise (BW: Boundaries Crossed 31/149; BW: Plasma Storm 137/135; BW: Plasma Blast 16/101), which can work with anything capable of running on mostly basic Water Energy or the even more generic Keldeo-EX that really just needs a Float Stone to provide a pseudo-Switch each turn, but rather Rough Seas which allows all of a player's’ Lightning-Types and all Water-Types to heal 30 damage once per turn.  As good or bad as this may sound, there are far better supported Types (like Fighting) and those with far less to their credit (especially counting the Types that have support but it just doesn’t work as well as what Water has). 

130 HP is as good as it gets for a Basic Pokémon, at least that we’ve seen printed without an additional gimmick (like being a Pokémon-EX); this is enough to be more likely than less to survive an attack, though decks that aren’t sacrificing damage for a useful effect or with a complete set-up should OHKO even this.  The Grass Weakness can be dangerous because it is shared with more popular cards like Seismitoad-EX but has very few cards that can exploit it which have seen competitive play; mostly Virizion-EX, Genesect-EX and Leafeon (BW: Plasma Storm 11/116).  There is no Resistance and that is typical so not worth docking; as such we will move onto the Retreat Cost of [CCCC].  This is massive and will be difficult to pay and perhaps even more difficult to recover from, though fortunately most decks do take measures (such as the above Keldeo-EX/Float Stone combo) to avoid having to deal with it. 

Kyogre has two attacks.  The first is Spring Tides, which requires [WC] and is a “flip until tails” attack, good for 30 damage per “heads”.  The second attack is Ocean Cyclone, requiring [WWWC] and hitting for 80 damage to the opponent’s Active plus 10 to each of his or her Benched Pokémon (Weakness and Resistance don’t apply for the Bench).  These attacks aren’t without merit, but I can’t bring myself to call them “good”.  “Adequate” is even a bit strong and due to cultural connotations “not bad” won’t work either (see, I told you such things in language matter!).  Flip until tails attacks that have no minimum damage output naturally do no damage half the time; pretty bad.  Still there is always that potential, no matter how big the opponent’s Pokémon is, to score a OHKO (barring effects like Focus Sash, of course).  Given that two Energy can easily get at least a circumstantial 60 damage, the Spring Tides needed to hit for 30  plus (30 per heads), required only [W] or [CC] or perhaps even both.  Still… always a threat even if a longshot.  Similarly, Ocean Cyclone wishes it only required [WWCC], hit for 20 more to the active or maybe 10 more to each Benched Pokémon or all three.  Which sounds like a lot more than what we got… and perhaps it is. 

There are no other Standard or Expanded legal Kyogre.  There are some other Standard and/or Expanded legal big, Basic Water-Types and I actually went ahead and kept this on the review schedule (I’d intentionally picked too many cards so I could prune down the ones that seemed too weak after all) but I kept this one in part because the preferred non-Pokémon-EX, Basic Water-Type attacker is likely to rotate out soon: Suicune (BW: Plasma Blast 20/101).  If that isn’t what you were thinking… is it from a later set than Suicune?  If not, same problem.  Not for Expanded but for Standard.  I’m not thinking Kyogre is that replacement anymore, but at a glance it seemed plausible.  Not really a card to use in Standard or Expanded, though in Limited play (including Theme Deck matches) it is a pretty great card.  Unlikely to be sturdy enough to be in a +39 deck unless you pulled a lot of healing (and of course, that won’t apply to the promo version) to go with it, but most of the time it’ll be used in a “real” deck where it is pretty great unless you can’t run quite a few Water Energy.  Likely to be your MVP is you’re doing a Theme Deck versus Theme Deck battle (non-promo version is in Ocean’s Core). 

Ratings 

Standard: 1.9/5 

Expanded: 1.8/5 

Limited: 3.75/5* 

Theme Deck: 4.5/5* 

Summary: Being a Basic with solid stats helps offset having mediocre attacks that are either as flippy as can be or pricey, but Kyogre will only really get to shine when the card pool is a lot smaller (Limited and Theme Deck matches). 

*Limited and Theme Deck scores due to XY: Primal Clash 53/160


Emma Starr

                Some Kyogres are great. Some Kyogres are greater. And some Kyogre haven’t trained enough to become an EX yet. This is one of those lesser Kyogres. 130 HP is average, yet good for a basic non-EX, but that’s all it really has going for it. With a retreat cost of 4, and a weakness to Grass, things aren’t looking too good right off the bat.

                His first attack, Spring Tides, for one Water and a Colorless, does 30 times how many heads you can flip until you get tails. Attacks like this can be fun, but that’s about all their good for, since what’s to stop you from getting tails on your first flip, thus, wasting your turn? You could attach a Trick Coin to it if you really wanted to, but even then, the attack is still very unreliable in general.

                The second attack, Ocean Cyclone, does 4-for-80, and does 10 damage to your opponent’s benched Pokémon. Well, an energy cost of four is expensive on any Pokémon, but for just 80 damage, it’s par for the course along with most other basics of this caliber. It may be expensive, but if you’re really intent on using this guy, at least this attack is reliable, unlike the other, and you COULD manage to snipe with the attack, if things go in your favor and Kyogre survives long enough…which most likely…he won’t.

                Standard: 1.85/5

                Expanded: 1.85/5

                Limited: …well, this came out as a regular card in Primal Clash, but since we are in Roaring Skies now…most likely, you wouldn’t be having a pre-release Primal Clash tournament any more. And since we’re reviewing a promo for this set, it wouldn’t be in Limited anyway, but if we were using it for a Primal Clash tournament today for some reason, I’d give it a 2.5/5.


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