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Pojo's Pokémon Card of the Day
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Top 10 Cards Lost to Set Rotation
#6 - Lysandre
- Flashfire
Date Reviewed:
August 4, 2017
Ratings
& Reviews Summary
See Below
Ratings are based
on a 1 to 5 scale.
1 being horrible.
3 ... average. 5 is awesome.
Back to the main COTD
Page
|
aroramage |
Can you believe we STILL have
Lysandre in the format? After all this time?
To be fair, Ancient Origins has
been his last printing, and it doesn't look like he'll
be trampling over Guzma in the Sun&Moon sets, but for
what he did, Lysandre was the classy OG Supporter. Ever
since he debuted in Flashfire, Lysandre has been at
least a 1-of staple in many decks for one simple reason:
he can freely Switch your opponent's Pokemon.
This effect was heavily abused when
Pokemon Catcher didn't have its coin flip effect, and
despite taking up your Supporter for the turn, Lysandre
proved to be just as monumental. Getting the option to
switch the target of your attacks around and win the
game has always been massively appealing, not to mention
you could drag out problematic Bench sitters for the
chance to disrupt your opponent's strategy - always very
appealing.
Really it's just for that simple
reasoning that he's made such a major impact on the
game, sometimes even being the deciding factor in who
wins. He is one of the best Supporters in the game
easily, and he will continue to terrorize the Expanded
format with his presence.
...at least until Guzma shows up.
Then we gotta deal with that punk.
Rating
Standard: N/A (Lysandre's legacy
stretches across the past 3 years)
Expanded: 4.5/5 (and he'll no doubt
continue to see play in Expanded)
Limited: 5/5 (as he is practically
a staple himself)
Arora Notealus: It was actually a
brief topic of debate among us on whether Lysandre ought
to be considered for the list, in light of Guzma. You'll
hear more about Guzma when we review him for Burning
Shadows, but let's just say he does an extra thing on
top of what Lysandre does that makes him arguably
better. That being said, I brought up the point that
Guzma's presence shouldn't impact our feelings on
Lysandre, even if Lysandre ends up being inferior, since
he's only now being lost to rotation and has held that
impact for the past while accordingly. He actually ended
up topping my list personally, but...well, I did forget
about a few cards.
Weekend Thought: Do you agree with
our list so far? Think some of these ought to be higher
or lower? Anticipating a card to be in the Top 5? What
are some of the cards you'll miss playing with that are
rotating out? Or are you just taking a breather these
two weeks and waiting till Burning Shadows comes out for
our list then?
|
21times |
Lysandre
(Ancient Origins, 78/98) has become one of the
most prominent cards in the format.
A devastating Supporter card,
Lysandre
allows you to reach over to your opponent’s side of the
board and control what Pokemon is in the active
position.
It’s a card that is found in virtually every deck in the
format, and many decks play two (or more) of it.
It is a meta defining card – a card that defines
the way we play, the way we design our decks, the
strategies we use to increase our chances of winning.
I don’t know if I like the
design of this card.
If we take a second to step back and look at the
big picture, I just don’t think I like the ability to
reach over and control your opponent’s board state.
I don’t normally like to live in the hypothetical
like this, but I don’t know if this kind of rule should
be allowed in the game.
Look at it this way: what if
the bases were loaded and your best hitter came to the
plate. Then
the manager of the batting team announces that the
pitching team has to send the pitcher into the outfield
and replace him with the right fielder.
Or what if there are three seconds left in the 4th
quarter of a football game and a team’s star kicker is
about to come out and kick the winning field goal …
until the other team’s coach demands that the defensive
tackle needs to make the kick.
I just don’t know that this
card makes the game better – and believe me, I use
Lysandre as
much as anyone, I’m always looking to strand an
incapacitated active Pokemon or bring up a
Shaymin EX (Roaring
Skies, 77/108) for two easy prize cards – why do you
think I hate playing
Shaymin EX and
Tapu Lele GX (Guardians Rising, 60/145)?
But if this card left the game, I think the game
would be better for it.
I think the quality of the game would be improved
without having this tactic available to us.
However, it is not leaving; in
fact, it’s getting
better.
Guzma (Burning Shadows, 115/147) enters the meta today in the
expansion set Burning Shadows.
Guzma
does everything
Lysandre does … and more.
It also gives you the advantage of being able to
switch your
active Pokemon with one on the bench.
I’m not going to go on about
Guzma here – I
have a feeling that we’ll be doing that review three
weeks from today – but there’s little doubt in my mind
that the number of situations in which
Guzma is superior to Lysandre
is greater than the number of times that
Lysandre would
be preferential.
Rating
Standard: 1.5 out of 5
Conclusion
Lysandre
did not make my list of top ten cards lost to rotation
since we’re getting a card that will actually improve
upon it. As
I’ve mentioned before, if you take in more than just the
future impact – if you add a card’s historical influence
on the meta – then sixth place is probably too low for
Lysandre.
However, IMO even if
Lysandre weren’t rotating out, it would have been made obsolete by
Guzma.
|
Otaku |
Topping the bottom
half is Lysandre (XY: Flashfire 90/106,
104/106; XY: Ancient Origins 78/98), which we
reviewed twice before; first as our
number one pick
from XY: Flashfire and then again as the
fourth best card
of 2014. Since this set hit during a hiatus, I
didn’t make a list, but I was back in time for the end
of year countdown (Lysandre was actually my third
place pick). The cards that beat it? Muscle
Band and Yveltal-EX (plus Seismitoad-EX
for our overall list). Yeah, it took those
to beat it out! What makes a Trainer-Supporter
that allows you to force an opponent’s Benched Pokémon
into the Active position so strong? It took me
some time to understand why this effect was worth your
Supporter because I began all the way back with the
Base Set in 1999 when we had Gust of Wind, a
“normal Trainer”. If you don’t know how things
were in the beginning, Trainers had no subdivisions and
all followed the rules we now associate with Item
cards. The only restriction on the first turn was
“no manual Evolving”, which still exists and
still applies to both players. This similar state
was temporarily restored with the onset of the BW-series
of releases, and its second expansion brought us
Pokémon Catcher originally Gust of Wind
by a new name (the errata making it require a coin flip
happened shortly before Lysandre released).
Just like I expected Switch to only be an Item, I
expected my Gust of Wind style cards to also be
an Item.
Eventually, I
realized the importance of the game’s pacing, especially
with respect to its damage output. Gust of Wind
and Pokémon Catcher were problems because it was
a cardpool possibly because the effect is just too good
to be on an Item, but for sure because of the pacing of
the game (worse then than now); Evolving Basics were too
easy to OHKO, as were smaller, supporting Bench-sitters
(Basic or Evolution). Without a reliable way to
force up a Bench-sitter, it stands the risk of becoming
too strong, but with something like Gust of Wind,
they become too fragile. Losing your Supporter for
the turn has proven to be a solid compromise, as there
are enough other great Supporters that you really
are making a tradeoff by using your usage on Lysandre.
VS Seeker and (already) benching a Tapu Lele-GX
for that clutch Lysandre to win the game are
expected final plays unless unneeded. Speaking
of which, Lysandre might be run in heavier counts
without these two, but (for now) is more or less a
two-per-deck staple. I want to emphasize another
way in which Lysandre could have proven to be a
dud; with straightforward deck strategies, the biggest
threat is usually your opponent’s Active Pokémon, which
would mean you wouldn’t want (let alone need)
Lysandre to force something else into your
opponent’s Active slot. It is the current blend of
particular attackers and their select support (besides
exploiting Weakness), that keeps this tactic from
proving counterproductive or meaningless.
So, what will we do
without Lysandre? Use Guzma (SM:
Burning Shadows 115/147; 143/147). An
indignant end to the reign Lysandre; his second card (Lysandre’s
Trump Card) is too powerful so it gets banned
while his original “just right” card is getting
ever-so-slightly outclassed by a new Supporter with the
same effect, plus a mandatory Switch for your own
Active. Sure, the secondary effect might sometimes
backfire, but a good pivot Pokémon (usually) solves that
problem. This means even in Expanded, many (most?)
decks will go Guzma. Still, being
outclassed right before leaving Standard play
beats his actual video game ending, right?
Enjoy Lysandre in the Limited Format, assuming
you’ve got a less expensive way to pull it off than
buying old boosters that become less and less common
(and thus more and more expensive).
Ratings
Standard:
4.5/5 (soon to be N/A)
Expanded:
4.5/5 (Soon to be 4/5)
Limited:
5/5
Conclusion
Yes, I raised this
card’s score versus what I gave it nearly three years
ago. Why? At this exact moment,
Lysandre is at his zenith; a staple in nearly all
competitive decks, with that wonderful combination of
Tapu Lele-GX and VS Seeker for stupendous
support and the right mix of decks where forcing
something up from the Bench matters most games.
I may have teased that Lysandre was getting a raw deal,
but if you’re going to be replaced, at least it will be
at the end of an awesome three year-run. If he’s
lucky, maybe I’m lowballing how many decks won’t like
that forced Switch effect, either.
Breakdown
First,
something left out of yesterday’s breakdown was how
Vileplume made only two of our five lists, possibly
because the three who didn’t have it in their top 10
associated it so much with Forest of Giant Plants
(which was part of my reasoning). A bit awkward to
stick in here, but I dislike leaving out a factoid I’ve
been including, which brings us to how Lysandre
snagged sixth place with 16 voting points. It
also only appeared on two out of the five but placed
well enough to beat our tie between 7th place
Vileplume (XY: Ancient Origins 3/98) and 8th
place Teammates, though only by two votes.
It was a slightly more substantial four votes short of
tying with Monday’s fifth place finisher. Lysandre
did not make my own top 10, and while it did make
my extended list, I stuck it all the way in 30th
place, the lowest down I bothered ordering.
Remember, I’m obsessive so I went through almost
every card lost to rotation, and gave a least a
cursory score to each of them before making my personal
top 10 (and eventually increased that to a top 30).
Under normal circumstances, Lysandre wouldn’t
have even made that because it is about to be
replaced. It really has been a great three
years, and I almost wish I’d put it higher
because it is only being edged out in Expanded (and thus
in Standard, if reprinted suddenly). I included
the main focus or key cards of some decks that lost
almost everything to rotation; cards that would mean
little being reintroduced. Please, pardon my
rambling; I almost feel like I’m trying to apologize to
an old friend as I struggled to remember the past while
looking to the future. At first, I was fighting to
avoid sounding salty a card I expected to ignore made it
smack dab in the middle of the countdown, but now?
I’m almost… grateful.
|
Vince |
Our 6th place pick is Lysandre from XY Flashfire and was
printed again in XY Ancient Origins. It was ranked
1st place in the top 10 cards of XY Flashfire
and 4th place for top ten cards of 2014.
Reviews may be out of date, but that doesn’t change the
way Lysandre was played. This is a Supporter that
has an identical effect of some of the old and new cards
in the Pokemon TCG: Base Set Gust of Wind, Luxray SP GL
LV.X, pre-errata Pokemon Catcher, and Lycanroc GX.
If you still don’t get it, then it allows you to pick
one of your opponent’s benched Pokemon and force it
active. This is useful to pick off weakened
Pokemon for the KO or to put a Pokemon on an unfavorable
spot.
Lysandre came months after Pokemon Catcher was nerfed via errata to
require a successful coin flip in order to the same
thing (like Pokemon Reversal). So, the developers
reintroduced this effect on a different card that has
its own drawbacks. Lysandre was a supporter, and
since you can only use one Supporter during your turn,
players had to think whether or not on that particular
turn it was worth to change board position or to draw
more cards, but not both. Lysandre can be used
even when items are being shut down, unlike Pokemon
Catcher. This could give Vileplume a very hard
time!
Those still mourning about the loss of Lysandre should not be sad
for too long, since there’s another villainous boss
named Guzma (SM Burning Shadows) doing the same task but
with a twist. So in a way, the effect didn’t leave
rotation, just the character in a card. Guzma
still have the Gust of Wind effect, and also forces you
to switch your Pokemon. This twist can go either
way: It’s good to switch your Pokemon so that you can
shake off Special Conditions and other effects affecting
the Pokemon before being switched. This could get
Vileplume out of a tight spot and also enables a third
Greninja BREAK to use a third Giant Water Shuriken
(ability>retreat>ability>Guzma>ability). If you
have some Pokemon with free retreat, then that effect is
inconsequential. In Expanded, choosing between
Lysandre or Guzma is your personal preference.
Ratings:
Standard: 4.6/5
Expanded: 4.4/5
Limited: 5/5
Notes: Lysandre is as reliable as it gets in Expanded. Had
this as my 5th place pick.
Coming Up: Your inbox is full…………………of Trainer cards!
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