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Pojo's Pokémon Card of the Day

 

Tormenting Spray
- S&M: Burning Shadows
- #BUS 125

Date Reviewed:
Sept. 18, 2017

Ratings & Reviews Summary

Standard: 2.10
Expanded: 2.20
Limited: 2.66

Ratings are based on a 1 to 5 scale.
1 being horrible.  3 ... average.  5 is awesome.

Back to the main COTD Page


aroramage

Well gee, what a pain this TORRRRRRRRRRRRRRMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENT...ing Spray must be. 

The basic effect is to pick a card from your opponent's hand randomly, look at it, and discard it if it's a Supporter. On the one hand, this card is nice for getting information, regardless of whether or not you hit a Supporter - if you hit an Energy, you get a better idea of your opponent's general strategy or how prepared they are to go through with such Abilities as Greninja BREAK's Giant Water Shuriken; if you hit an Item, you could see what their aim is or what else they can do; and if you hit a Pokemon, well, you'll know another potential Benchmate or attacker they've got going on. If you hit a Supporter, great! You'll get rid of one of their more powerful cards! 

On the other hand...this card's got a lot of negatives. Most of the time, it's gonna go off and get nothing, which means you'll have played a card for nothing outside of information, and that's something that can only get you so far. Hitting a Fire Energy doesn't tell you much against a Fire deck, just like hitting a Choice Band doesn't tell you much about...well, any deck. On top of that, the kind of card it's targeting - the one you want to hit - is a Supporter, which while in theory it ought to be something you should be able to hit assuming your opponent has more than 1 Supporter in hand, there are plenty of ways for your opponent to get rid of their Supporters even with just 1 a turn. But maybe the most notable part is that this card is an Item that does little overall, which makes it tempting fuel for Trashalanche... 

Tormenting Spray may be useful in some situations, but it's hard to justify its placement in your deck, given what it could set off. As stronger Supporters leave, though, I can imagine running a couple Tormenting Spray's to potentially pick off some of the Sun & Moon era Supporters might help...but I wouldn't strongly count on it either. 

Rating 

Standard: 1.5/5 (a very niche card that might be a bit baity) 

Expanded: 2/5 (maybe if there's a format with more Supporters, it's justifiable)

Limited: 2.5/5 (but it's hard to reason it versus other cards) 

Arora Notealus:  

Next Time: Just be careful, you n3ver kn0w 1f ther3'5 a viru5 ab0ut...


21times

Tormenting Spray (Burning Shadows, 125/147) makes its debut in the Burning Shadows expansion set.  An Item card, this allows you to randomly choose a card from your opponent’s hand.  Your opponent reveals that card and discards it if it is a Supporter card.

Those of us who love Sylveon GX (Guardians Rising, 92/145) saw this card and our jaws instantly hit the floor – this is the card we needed!  I said in my Sylveon GX review that Sylveon was one more disruption card away from being top tier, and this was going to be it!  This was the last piece of the puzzle that would completely devastate your opponent with the Red Card (Generations, 71/83), Stadium, Delinquent (Breakpoint, 98/122) combo.  Now, if the last card in your opponent’s hand was an N (Fates Collide, 105/124) or a Professor Sycamore (Steam Siege, 114/114), you can put your opponent in the ultimate top deck mode and leave them virtually powerless to stop you.  Especially with Shaymin EX (Roaring Skies, 77/108) and VS Seeker (Roaring Skies, 110/108) rotating out, your opponent would need to top deck a draw supporter or a Tapu Lele GX (Guardians Rising, 60/145) in order for them to get out of draw pass draw pass draw pass….

Unfortunately, two cards have completely ruined this strategy: Octillery (Breakthrough, 33/162) and Oranguru (Sun & Moon, 113/149).  You do everything right, you execute the Red Card, Stadium, Delinquent, Tormenting Spray combo and leave your opponent cardless … and then he simply says, “Abyssal Hand” or “Instruct” and all your hard work was in vain.  He gets three or five cards in his hand and continues virtually unimpeded along his normal offensive strategy.  Don’t get me wrong – discarding four cards from your opponent’s hand can still disrupt your opponent – it’s just not the same as being able to completely devastate him by leaving him in ultimate top deck mode.

I haven’t yet tried to pair Sylveon GX with Garbodor’s (Breakpoint, 57/122) Garbotoxin.  I may try to work those two together at some point, but right now the typical quad Sylveon build simply doesn’t have what it takes to be top tier competitive because so many decks are running either Octillery or Oranguru.  I’ve actually seen one of those two Pokemon in 73 out of 218 matches I’ve played so far this month.  And I guess that means that there’s a better than fifty percent chance that you will come across a deck that doesn’t have Octillery or Oranguru, and so you can still use this tactic more than half of the time and it will work effectively for you.  It just seems like every time I play Sylveon, my opponent has Octillery or Oranguru and they nullify my strategy so much that I have gotten discouraged from playing it. 

Rating

Standard: 2 out of 5

Conclusion

I would definitely say that you could use Tormenting Spray in situations other than the combo that I described above, it’s just that is the perfect use for the card, and the one in which I am 100% certain it was designed to complement.  It’s an insta-play card in almost every circumstance, so it will have the benefit of giving you more hand space in situations where you are playing Octillery or Oranguru.  It is an Item card, so it does add fuel to Trashalanche, but with VS Seeker no longer in the format, this card can definitely work to limit your opponent’s development and give you a strategic advantage in tempo.  It’s just best used in a limited number of situations, and its limited usefulness is why I gave it such a low rating.


Otaku

For some of us, Mondays are torture, so it is appropriate that we look at Torment Spray (SM: Burning Shadows 12/147).  This is a new Trainer-Item with an effect that allows you to select a random card from your opponent’s hand; your opponent reveals it and, if it is a Supporter, your opponent then discards it.  Trainer cards are essential to competitive decks, and certain Item cards are staples, with many being “loose” staples that many decks run and most wish they could include.  This is probably while support for Trainers and - more specifically - Items aren’t particularly numerous; the best of them certainly don’t need the help.  Counters for both the broader Trainer class and the Trainer-Item subclass of cards exist, but general Trainer counters haven’t proven competitive in quite some time, while anti-Item effects are a big part of Expanded and were in Standard until the rotation earlier this month.  For Standard play, the main one you still have to worry about is Garbodor (SM: Guardians Rising 51/145); its “Trashalanche” attack hits harder based on the number of Item cards in your discard pile and has turned it into a not-quite-glass cannon.  In Expanded, Trashalanche is still a threat but you also need to worry about various Item-locking tactics (attack or Ability based), as well as a few other nasty tricks like an opponent opening with a Ghetsis. 

So being a Trainer-Item is fine, how about the actual effect?  The wording is a bit of a concern; if you can see your opponent’s hand, can you still play the card?  If you can, does your opponent temporarily hide their hand so that you’re forced to make a random pick, or are you able to target exactly what you want?  I believe the answer is that you do just pick the unknown (random) card of your choice, even if another effect that allows you to see your opponent’s hand is active.  So, outside of this scenario, the guaranteed benefit is seeing one card from your opponent’s hand; it might be meaningless or it could provide a vital clue as to your opponent’s course of action and the best path for you to take.  For example, even if Tormenting Spray hits an Energy, if you’re also running Team Skull Grunt then you know that won’t whiff this turn.  The reverse can also be true; if you lead with Team Skull Grunt, then you’ll know if there is something Tormenting Spray can actually discard in hand.  Even when you discard a Supporter, it may not matter; most decks right now can use an Ultra Ball to fetch a Tapu Lele-GX, and in Expanded players are still running three or four VS Seeker.  Though unlikely, you may even accidentally help an opponent out, like by discarding one of two copies of Archie’s Ace in the Hole; remember, if you hit a Supporter with Tormenting Spray, it has to be discarded even if you would rather it not be. 

Tormenting Spray seems to have released at one of the best and worst times for it.  How so?  Draw cards like N, Octillery (XY: BREAKthrough 33/162), Oranguru, Professor Juniper (Professor Sycamore), and Shaymin-EX (XY: Roaring Skies 77/108, 106/108) all reward a player for “shrinking” his hand or his deck.  Not always in the same way, of course; with N it isn’t just about your own use of the card but your opponent’s as well.  With the “Draw until…” effects, it is about increasing their yield, while with Professor Juniper or Professor Sycamore, it is about minimizing waste.  Having one of these or an out to one of these can jump-start a deck even if the player has no Supporter currently in hand… speaking of which, Tapu Lele-GX and VS Seeker also need to be mentioned in this light as well.  Topdecking may be scary, but it just is not as bad as it could (and often has) been.  The combination of it all means players are more likely to get themselves into a situation where Tormenting Spray can not only hit a Supporter, but one they were counting on using the next turn, but your opponent is more likely to get what he or she needs off of his or her next draw or even have an answer already in play.  This isn’t a time when the most brutal hand control cards are present but that is also a mixed blessing.  If we still had access to cards like Rocket’s Sneak Attack or The Rocket’s Trap you wouldn’t really need this.  If we did not already have other nasty tricks like Ghetsis, Delinquent, Red Card, etc. then Tormenting Spray would be one of the few disruption cards in down.  Instead, we have just enough that it has to compete for deck space but may find useful combo partners.  A Ghetsis or Delinquent followed up by Tormenting Spray seems very, very nasty… even more so if Garbodor (XY: BREAKpoint 57/122) and Seismitoad-EX locking down an opponent’s Abilities and Items, respectively. 

For both Standard and Expanded Format play, Tormenting Spray is a functional play in nearly any competitive deck.  However, I believe it will only prove optimal when used in conjunction with other control effects.  We have another example of different circumstances producing similar results; more dance partners but more rivals and counters in Expanded than in Standard, so the next result is I’m scoring them equally.  For the Limited Format, I’m scoring this reasonably well because you’ll probably have the deck space to take a chance on it.  You’re probably just getting to see a random card from your opponent’s hand, as Supporters are likely in short supply and your opponent is unlikely to be able to sit on them too long but this set has a few that aren’t wise to use without good cause, so you may find a juicy target in hand.  A target that your opponent is almost certainly unable to recycle or replace. 

Ratings 

Standard: 3/5 

Expanded: 3/5 

Limited: 3/5 

Conclusion 

In some ways, Tormenting Spray feels like some of the more potent “tails fails” cards, which can be game changing when they work and a total waste when they don’t.  Some would prefer the luck of a coin toss since it can always work or fail, while others would prefer elements they can more readily influence or predict.  I’ve already seen how simple tricks like a well-timed N or Delinquent can leave a player scrambling, so for the added bite this gives control decks, I’ve got to bump up what would be mediocre scores based on general performance into good (but not great) ones. 

As Tormenting Spray only showed up on my Top 25 list, but as my 12th place pick, it tied with both Diancie (SM: Burning Shadows 94/147) and Bodybuilding Dumbbells.  Diancie has seen some actual, successful competitive play already, so even though she didn’t make my own list and didn’t technically make the Pojo one, I’m glad she won the roll off between here and Tormenting Spray.  We’ll have to wait and see if Bodybuilding Dumbbells proves worth it on the right Stage 1, but that doesn’t change it managed to make both 21times’ list and my own (which broke the three-way tie in its favor, no roll required).


Vince

Tormenting Spray is an item card that lets you randomly choose a card from your opponent’s hand.  If it is a Supporter card, discard it.
 
This card limits itself too much to be useful, but Gumshoos-GX’s Search the Premises ability lets you look at your opponent’s hand.  That saves you from guessing and as long as the opponent has a Supporter or two, you can calmly choose without any fuss.
 
The perfect opportunity to use Tormenting Spray would be when your opponent has used Professor Sycamore or N to get a huge hand, making any future Supporter cards dead cards for that particular turn so that on the next turn, you’ll have an opportunity to get rid of it.
 
Ratings:
 
Standard: 2/5
Expanded: 2/5
Limited: 1.25/5


Retro

            Today’s card is one of those crazy cards with a very original concept that has never been seen in anyway, shape or form. It’s Tormenting Spray, the new Item card from Burning Shadows. I believe that the inspiration comes from the move Torment from the video games,where it denies your opponent from using the same move twice in a row. This allows you to stop your opponent’s setup sweeper from using setup moves such as Quiver Dance back to back, which can help them win otherwise. But does Tormenting Spray does the same? And the answer is a big no.

            What Tormenting Spray, the repel item from Team Skull does, is very different. It allows you to pick a random card from your opponent’s hand, and if the card you choose is a Supporter card, you discard it. This may be game breaking on certain situations, as you can potentially discard their game-winning Supporter, such as that Guzma they save for the win, an Acerola they save because they know that their main attacker is about to go down and they don’t want to risk it, a Professor Sycamore/N they need to refresh/get a new hand, a Professor Kukui to help score a knockout the following turn, so on and so forth. And this being an Item card, you can use it multiple times as long as you have them in your hand. If their hands are both Supporter cards they are saving for their next turns to counterplay you and swing their game momentum to them; this is a very strong disruption card in this meta!

            Being easy finds in the set, naturally I have multiple hours of game time that I can use to test them out; so far this card is more comfortable staying in the Standard format than the Expanded one, because for a very simple reason that I’ll explain later. Obviously, with the slower, more-Supporter heavy format that the 2017-2018 meta is undergoing now, Tormenting Spray is a godsend to stall based decks and techniques. Two decks that I found Tormenting Spray to be very crucial is Quad Wobbuffet (XY Phantom Forces, XY Generations) and Gumshoos-GX (SM Base Set)/Sylveon-GX (SM Guardians Rising), stall decks which has a nice place in the meta and leisurely play. As both decks are stall based, what you want to do with them is to continuously deny those resources and them leading to deck out. Wobbuffet is just a bonkers deck for casual play; you have Ability lock that cannot be shut off, you have the energy disruption cards such as Team Skull Grunt, you have the hand disruption card, and now you have the recovery denial card in Tormenting Spray. The big reason why Wobbuffet decks suffer greatly is that your opponent can just use Professor Sycamore or N to refresh their hand; well with Tormenting Spray what you can do is that you use Team Skull Grunt (SM Base Set) to look at your opponent’s hand, and then if they have a comeback Supporter to recover from the disruption, you use Tormenting Spray to discard that card. The same can be said to the Gumshoos/Sylveon mill deck earlier; but the difference is that you have much more precision in hand disruption thanks to Gumshoos-GX’s Search the Premises ability which allows you to look at your opponent’s hand. But however, this is where things went downhill.

            You see, you can only discard 1 card in your opponent’s hand, it targets a very specific card, and also you have an averagely low chance of actually having that card in their hand, despite your utmost best predictions. If your opponent has an 8-card hand, you have only a 12.5% chance of hitting a Supporter, or even if there are any, in which case the chances fell further into being nearly 0%. Also I explained earlier that this card is more suited to the Standard format than the Expanded format? It all happens because of one card; VS Seeker. Whenever you force discard a Supporter card, they can just use VS Seeker and get them back, as if nothing happened. If anything, they will be happy as what you do is that you help thin out their deck for them, so it actually becomes a double-edged sword to you as well. You also need to wear down the possibility of top decks; as lucky as you are that you managed to discard your opponent’s Professor Sycamore so you feel that they are on the back foot; if their top deck for the next turn IS a Professor Sycamore, what can you do? Also the fact that still remains that it’s an Item card that can whiff, just like Max Elixir; this means when you can’t get anything off the Tormenting Spray, you will be rewarded a +20 damage when you play against a Garbodor (SM Guardians Rising) when you fail to get the Supporter discard, just like the fact that when you fail to get the energy from your 6 top cards. Not the best Item there is, to be very honest.

            Overall, I feel that Tormenting Spray is that kind of “oh yeah it’s a great idea on paper, but it’s just paper” type of card. There are great deals of potential inside this card, but the fact that it’s an Item that can whiff rather easily and is a double-edged sword, are just some of the things that let’s Tormenting Spray down.

Rating:

Standard: 2/5 (Not the best disruption card out there, as even when you can have the possibility of denying resources at your opponent, it can whiff and becomes useless.)

Expanded: 1.8/5 (A useless card that just helps your opponent more than it can help you. Couple that with the myriad of recovery cards in the format and it degrades in viability faster than paper degrades in soil.)

Limited: 3.9/5 (A very useful card in this format, where even a single Supporter miss can win you the game.)

Next on SM Burning Shadows:
P2’s glitched envy.               


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