Pojo's Magic The Gathering
Judge's Corner

Circular Logic = Standstill?

I hope you can settle a couple a questions for me. I haven't been playing long and I usually take my friend's word on the rules. I think I might be right on these questions, even though they disagree with what my friend says.

Q: My friend has 8 cards in his hand and one Island in play. He has 3 cards in his graveyard. At his discard phase, he says that he will discard Circular Logic as his discard, using its madness ability. I say it will just fizzle, but he thinks it's a pseudo-Standstill.

A: Although you're not right in your wording, I think you've got it right in concept. Here's how his cleanup step goes:

-Friend discards Circular Logic (due to having 8 cards in hand).
-Friend declares he is playing it via madness, and removes Circular Logic from the game instead of putting it in his graveyard.
-This sets up a triggered ability, namely, "Whenever this card is removed from the game this way, until he passes next, he may play it any time he could play an instant as though it were in his or her hand by paying ({U}) rather than paying its mana cost. When he passes next, he puts it into his graveyard." (502.24a)
-Normally, players don't get priority during the cleanup step, but since there's a triggered ability waiting to be put on the stack, the game puts it on the stack and gives the active player (your friend) the chance to play spells or abilities. (Note - he can't play Circular Logic yet. He has to wait for this triggered ability to resolve first.)
-Let's keep it simple, and say you both pass. This triggered ability resolves, and your friend can now play Circular Logic for {U} until he passes next.
-…But your friend doesn't have anything to counter (except if he wants to cast something first). So he passes. This sets up the second triggered ability ("When he passes next, he puts it into his graveyard"). That triggered ability is put on the stack.
-Then your friend gets priority again. He can no longer play the Circular Logic. I'll keep it simple again, and say you both pass. Circular Logic is put into the graveyard.
-Your friend receives priority one more time. Keeping it simple again, you both pass. This cleanup step ends, and another cleanup step begins.

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Q: Is a Mystic Snake a valid target for a Molten Influence? I say it is, since it can be played as an instant, which is how he was casting it.

-Josh Thomas

A: Molten Influence
{1}{R}
Instant
Counter target instant or sorcery spell unless its controller has Molten Influence deal 4 damage to him or her.

An instant or sorcery spell is a spell that was cast from a card with "instant" or "sorcery" as its card type. You can find a card's type by looking on the line between the picture and the text box.

That line on Mystic Snake says "Creature - Snake." Therefore, Mystic Snake is of type creature (with subtype Snake), and is unable to be targeted by Molten Influence.

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Q: I attack my opponent with a squirrel token, and he had a Grim Lavamancer in play. He said he would not declare any blockers. Then before combat damage was on the stack, I cast Might of Oaks on the squirrel. Then in response, he used the Lavamancer's ability to deal 2 damage to the squirrel killing it and my opponent took no damage. Does this work out right?

A: Yes. Your opponent responded to the Might of Oaks by using the Lavamancer's ability. The Lavamancer's ability resolves first, doing 2 damage to the squirrel (with one toughness, I presume). Squirrel suffers lethal damage and is put into the graveyard (and immediately removed from the game as a state-based effect … 420.5f). Then the Might of Oaks goes to resolve, sees that the squirrel is no longer there, and is countered on resolution.

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Q: Can you float mana you get during your upkeep? Say if my opponent used Opposition to tap my land during my upkeep, then in response, I tap my lands for mana. Would that mana float to my main phase?

-Mack4R

A: Mana stays in your mana pool only to the end of the current phase. In your example, when you tapped the land for mana during your upkeep, you would have until the end of your draw step to use the mana or take mana burn - it would not get to your main phase, as the beginning phase ends after the draw step, and your mana pool would clear at that time.

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Q: Orim's Chant in response to my opponent adding mana to his pool, I can see how he can cast instants, but can he cast creature or sorcery spells, because according to the rules they are cast slower than instants.

A: One problem … you can't cast Orim's Chant in response to your opponent tapping lands for mana, as tapping lands for mana doesn't use the stack, and your opponent doesn't lose priority. (411.1)

(There is one exception - City of Brass … if you tap your lands for mana before playing the spell, City of Brass has a triggered ability that must resolve before you can play a creature or sorcery spell (since the trigger makes the stack non-empty).)

However … if your opponent casts a spell that would add mana to his mana pool (such as Cabal Ritual), then you can Chant him in response, and he'll have to find a non-spell way to use that mana or take mana burn.

And a nit-pick … creature and sorcery spells aren't "slower" than instant spells … they go on the stack and resolve exactly like instants. They just have special rules on when they can be played (empty stack in your main phase).

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Q: I use a Palinchron combo with Mana Flare to create infinite mana, now my question is, can I return Palinchron back to my hand in response to a spell being cast then play it again as an instant using Winding Canyons without creating a new stack?

A: Sure. Keep in mind, however, that that spell being cast will still resolve (unless you counter it). So if the spell being cast is a Wrath of God, for example, keep the Palinchron in your hand until Wrath of God resolves, and then replay him.

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Q: Can a player tap another player's creature with the ability of regeneration, such as using the land Yavimaya Hollow?

A: You can put a regeneration shield on your opponent's creature with the Yavimaya Hollow, sure. But unless that creature takes lethal damage/is destroyed, it won't tap, as tapping is a side effect of using the regeneration shield.

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Q: Can you target a Spirit of the Night in your graveyard with an Animate Dead?

A: Animate Dead
{1}{B}
Enchantment
When Animate Dead comes into play, if it's in play, it becomes an enchant creature. Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control enchanted by Animate Dead.
Enchanted creature gets -1/-0.
When Animate Dead leaves play, destroy enchanted creature. It can't be regenerated.

Sure, you can target the Spirit of the Night with Animate Dead. However, when Animate dead resolves, Spirit of the Night sees that it is being enchanted by a black enchantment, and sends the Animate Dead to the graveyard, which, in turn, sends the Spirit of the Night back to the graveyard.

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Q: Can you cast a Verdeloth the Ancient with kicker, then play Liberate on Verdeloth in the same turn so that you can get the kicker tokens again?

-Factory2o2

A: You won't get a second set of tokens when Verdeloth comes back into play, as you are not casting the Verdeloth, so you can't pay the kicker cost.

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Q: Let's say my opponent has out a Testament of Faith, and I attack with a Wild Mongrel.

During his Declare Blockers step, can he turn pay 0 and turn Testament of Faith into a 0/0 wall creature and in response block my Wild Mongrel so he takes no damage?

A: The Testament of Faith would have to be a creature before the declare blockers step starts, so he would have to turn the Testament of Faith into a creature before then (during the declare attackers step). However, when he pays 0, the Testament of Faith turns into a 0/0 creature, and then would immediately be put into the graveyard as a state-based effect (since it is a creature with toughness 0 or less … 420.5b). So it would not be around to block the Mongrel.

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Q: Also, let's take the same situation but he has a Glorious Anthem out. So, can he pay 0 and it would be a 1/1 as
soon as it becomes a creature?

-Chaos8HyperSonic

A: Yes. In this case, he could pay 0 during the declare attackers step, and the Testament of Faith would be a 1/1 creature, and would stick around long enough to block the Mongrel.

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Q: If I cast a Flametongue Kavu, can my opponent respond by tapping one of my mountains? (I only have one mountain in play.) Do I take mana burn damage?

-Arthur

A: No. Once you cast the Flametongue Kavu (and therefore tap the mountain to pay for it), it's tapped. If your opponent wants to tap your tapped land, that's fine, but it won't stop you from casting the Flametongue Kavu, as the mana has already been spent.

Similarly, if you opponent taps your land, you can tap it for mana in response. Then you'll still have the mana in your mana pool to cast your Flametongue Kavu.

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Q: I am currently trying to make a Mist of Stagnation deck (using Judgment cards of course) and I am wondering if Dwell on the Past would be a useful card in emptying the opponent's graveyard. I am unsure of whether the target, or the caster, gets to choose the number of cards being shuffled into the library.

-gldengun7@aol.com

A: The person who's casting a spell chooses all targets for that spell. Therefore, if you are casting Dwell on the Past, you choose (who to target and) which (and how many) cards are shuffled in.

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Q: I have Arcane Laboratory and Equilibrium in play, my opponent plays a Big Nasty Spell. I counter it by playing a Mystic Snake, and then I pay {1} to return it back to my hand. My opponent says that that is not a legal move because he believes that you have to return target creature to its owner's hand before the creature I played actually comes into play. I disagreed saying basically that Equilibrium states "Whenever you successfully cast a creature spell, you may pay {1} to return target creature to its owners hand."

A: OLD WORDING ALERT!! I see you are playing with the Exodus version. The 7th Edition version (and the text in the Oracle) reads…

Equilibrium
{1}{U}{U}
Enchantment
Whenever you play a creature spell, you may pay {1}. If you do, return target creature to its owner's hand.

The change was necessary due to the fact that "successfully cast" was a term used back in 5th Edition rules to mean a spell which has had its interrupt window closed, but it was not yet in play (it could still be responded to with instants). 6th Edition did away with interrupts, so any old card (before Urza's Destiny, which was the first card set to use 6th Edition wording) that says "successfully cast" should now say "play."

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Q: … Therefore I can return the snake back to my hand because it comes into play then I pay the one mana to return it. Is this correct?

A: No. You have to target a creature currently in play when you cast the Mystic Snake. (2 Snakes would bounce each other just fine.)

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Q: My opponent plays a Ball Lightning and attacks with it. I play Terminate and kill it, he plays Fling to sac the Ball Lightning to negate the kill spell and to deal 6 damage to me. Is this one of those times where you can't play a spell or ability when another spell is resolving, or would it be like your example of the Elvish Lyrist's ability and that you couldn't kill/tap it because it is already sacced?

A: Let's set up the stack…

-Stack empty, Ball Lightning attacking.
-Your opponent passes priority to you (he is the active player, so he has to pass for you to be able to do something).
-You play Terminate, targeting the Ball Lightning, and pass priority.
-Your opponent responds to the Terminate with Fling. As a cost to play the Fling, he sacrifices the Ball Lightning.
-You both pass.
-Top spell on the stack resolves, Fling does 6 damage to you.
-You both pass again.
-Terminate attempts to resolve, but since its target is gone, Terminate is countered on resolution.

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Q: Today when I was playing a game at lunch I saw another game going on next to me. One person, player A, played Drain Life to kill a creature player B controlled. Player B had some kind of sliver or something like that that said something like "Tap, target spell that targets a creature targets another target creature instead."

A: The closest I could come to your description was Silver Wyvern, so we'll go with that …

Silver Wyvern
{3}{U}{U}
Creature -- Drake
4/3
Flying
{U}: Change the target of target spell or ability that targets only Silver Wyvern. The new target must be a creature.

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Q: … He uses that ability to target a creature in his own graveyard! I was like, you can't do that, because once it is in the graveyard, it's not in play. Player B said that it was legal because the ability didn't say it had to be a creature in play so he could target any one he wanted. Who is right?

-James Racine

A: You are, but with a slightly incorrect explanation.

Creature cards that are not in play are creature cards, not creatures. Creatures only exist in the in-play zone.

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Clarification:

In your last segment you answered this question this way:

Q: My opponent attacks with a Wild Mongrel without discarding any cards from her hand, I say that I take the damage instead of blocking with a creature. Then she plays Giant Growth after I say I take the damage. Do I take 2 damage or 5?

A: When you say you are going to take the damage, what you are really saying is, "I declare that I will not block the Wild Mongrel." You opponent still has a chance to play spells or abilities before combat damage goes on the stack, so she plays Giant Growth on the Mongrel. Unless you remove the Mongrel from combat (by dealing it lethal damage or bouncing it), you will be taking 5 damage.

However, rule 310.2 says that combat damage goes on the stack as assigned, and THEN the player receives priority to play spells. So how does the Wild Mongrel player get to play the Giant Growth BEFORE the combat damage goes on the stack?

-Justin Wu

A: You apparently are confused about the mechanics of the combat phase. Let's walk through a sample combat phase, with only the Mongrel as an attacker, and no other spells/abilities being played except for the Giant Growth during the attack phase. I will be quoting the rules for each step, and walking us through this sample combat phase.

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306. Combat Phase

306.1. The combat phase has five steps, which proceed in order: beginning of combat, declare attackers, declare blockers, combat damage, and end of combat. The declare blockers and combat damage steps are skipped if no creatures are declared as attackers (see rule 308.4).

307. Beginning of Combat Step

307.1. As this step begins, triggered abilities (if any) are added to the stack, and then the active player gets priority to play spells and abilities.

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So you enter your combat phase, and each player gets a chance to do something. This is when you would want to tap creatures (with an Icy Manipulator, for example) so they can't attack.

We said we wouldn't have any effects except for the Giant Growth, so both players pass here, and the game goes to the next step.

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308. Declare Attackers Step

308.1. The active player declares which, if any, creatures he or she controls are attacking. Only creatures can attack, and the following creatures can't attack: tapped creatures (even those that can attack without tapping), Walls, and creatures the active player didn't control continuously since the beginning of the turn. This declaration is simultaneous, not sequential, and doesn't go on the stack. Any triggered ability generated during this action waits until a player would receive priority.

308.2. The active player determines whether the attack is legal. (See section 5, "Additional Rules.") If it is, he or she taps all attacking creatures. Tapping a creature when it is declared as an attacker is not a cost; attacking simply causes creatures to become tapped. Then the player pays all required costs. Other costs and/or restrictions may also apply. (See rule 409.1f.) The active player may play mana abilities at this time only if an attack cost includes a mana payment.

308.3. If the proposed attack isn't legal or the active player can't pay all required costs, all actions described in rules 308.1 and 308.2 are canceled. Then the active player redeclares attacking creatures. (See rule 422, "Handling Illegal Actions.")

308.4. If no creatures are declared as attackers, the game proceeds directly to the end of combat step, skipping the remainder of the declare attackers step as well as the entire declare blockers and combat damage steps.

308.5. A creature becomes an attacking creature when it has been declared as part of a legal attack and all attack costs have been paid, but only if it's controlled by the active player. It remains an attacking creature until it's removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first. The nonactive player is considered to have been attacked that turn at this time if one or more creatures are attacking.

308.6. After a legal attack has been declared and all required costs have been paid, the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

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Your opponent declares the Wild Mongrel as an attacker. There are no costs in our example (such as Propaganda), or restrictions on the attack (such as Dueling Grounds), so the attack is legal, and the Mongrel taps and is now an attacking creature.

Then she receives priority to play spells or abilities. You both pass at this point, and the game moves on to the next step.

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309. Declare Blockers Step

309.1. The defending player declares which, if any, creatures he or she controls are blocking and which attacking creature each one blocks. Tapped creatures and noncreature permanents can't be declared as blockers. Each creature may block only one attacking creature, although any number of creatures may block the same attacking creature. (Note that blocking doesn't cause a creature to tap.) This declaration is simultaneous, not sequential, and doesn't go on the stack. Any triggered ability generated during this action waits until a player would receive priority.

309.1a A creature is considered blocking alone if it's the sole creature declared as a blocker in a given combat phase.

309.2. The defending player determines whether the block is legal. (See section 5, "Additional Rules.") If it is, he or she pays all required costs. A player may play mana abilities at this time only if a blocking cost that player could pay includes a mana payment.

309.2a. If the proposed block isn't legal or the defending player can't pay all required costs, all actions described in rules 309.1 and 309.2 are canceled. Then the defending player redeclares blocking creatures. (See rule 422, "Handling Illegal Actions.")

309.3. A creature becomes a blocking creature when it has been declared as part of a legal block and all block costs have been paid, but only if it's controlled by the defending player. An attacking creature with one or more creatures declared as blockers for it becomes a blocked creature; one with no blockers becomes an unblocked creature. The creature's status remains unchanged until the creature is removed from combat or the combat phase ends, whichever comes first.

309.4. Once a creature has been declared as a blocker, the block can't be "undone" by playing a spell or ability that removes it from combat, makes the attacking creature unblockable, or would have made the blocker unable to block earlier.

309.5. After all legal blocks have been declared and all required costs have been paid, the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

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This is where your confusion is. At this point, you have no blockers, and you declare that fact. The Wild Mongrel becomes an unblocked creature.

Now, your opponent receives priority to play spells or abilities. She plays the Giant Growth at this point, and the Giant Growth resolves, making the Mongrel a 5/5 creature.

You can't force your opponent to put damage on the stack after you have declared blockers (declaring no blockers is still declaring blockers) before she has a chance to play spells or abilities.

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310. Combat Damage Step

310.1. First the active player announces how each attacking creature will assign its combat damage. Then the defending player announces how each blocking creature will assign its combat damage. (See also rule 502.2, "First Strike.") A player may divide a creature's combat damage as he or she chooses among the legal recipients. Dividing combat damage is subject to the following restrictions:

310.1a Each attacking creature and each blocking creature will assign combat damage equal to its power.

310.1b An unblocked creature will assign all its combat damage to the defending player.

310.1c A blocked creature will assign combat damage, divided as its controller chooses, to the creatures blocking it. If no creatures are currently blocking it (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it will assign no combat damage.

310.1d A blocking creature will assign combat damage, divided as its controller chooses (no fractions), to the attacking creatures it's blocking. If it isn't currently blocking any creatures (if, for example, they were destroyed or removed from combat), it will assign no combat damage.

310.2. All assignments of combat damage go on the stack as though they were a single pseudospell. Then the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

310.3. Although combat-damage assignments go on the stack, they aren't spells or abilities, so they can't be countered.

310.4. Combat damage resolves as though it were a pseudospell. When it resolves, it's dealt as originally assigned. This happens even if the creature dealing damage is no longer in play, its power has changed, or the creature receiving damage has left combat. (Note that the source of the damage is the creature as it currently exists, or as it most recently existed if it is no longer in play.) If a creature that was supposed to receive damage is no longer in play or is no longer a creature, the damage assigned to it isn't dealt. After combat damage finishes resolving, the active player gets priority.

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So the Mongrel's 5 damage goes on the stack, you both pass, and the damage resolves, with you taking 5 damage.

You both pass again, and the game goes to the final step in combat.

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311. End of Combat Step

311.1. All "at end of combat" abilities trigger and go on the stack. (See rule 404, "Triggered Abilities.") Then the active player receives priority to play spells and abilities.

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This is when you would take care of effects like Saprazzan Outrigger's. We have nothing here, so you both pass, and the game goes to your opponent's second main phase.

Good luck!!

-Bill Guerin
PojoMagicJudge@hotmail.com
DCI Level 2 judge